are you guys at I'm from Ann Arbor
Michigan and how's the weather in Ann
Arbor start all over again the roads
been terrible but most importantly the
potholes are terrible so it's credibly
hard to drive but other than that yeah
makes sense to me oh there we go I muted
myself to go well I'm
I'll introduce everybody and what we're
gonna get started yeah so yeah thanks
for coming to repair radio this is
episode three and we get together every
other Thursday at 11 a.m. PST to talk
about the right to repair movement and a
lot of other cool repair stuff is kind
of evolving it's the wild and crazy
world of people fixing things yeah and
it's just amazing the diversity of
interests that we've gotten people from
all over the world all walks of life
that are brought together by their
desire to defeat the second law of
thermodynamics everything breaks
everything breaks eventually and the
work for us care takers you know
attempting struggling valiantly to push
back the forces of chaos how we would be
way the course of all they would would
wash over the world and everything into
a state of dysfunction yeah and I think
a lot of people could say like Oh back
in my day you know we used to just fix
things when they're broken and this
podcast is here to inform people about
write repair movement how to get you
know hopefully laws passed in more
States in the US but then also yeah just
focus on featuring people fixing things
cuz we're all capable of fixing the
things that we've bought especially when
it comes to like cell phone repairs and
laptop upgrades so we're live streaming
from our YouTube channel youtube.com/
and then we'll also post this audio to
all the podcast apps tomorrow so if you
don't get a chance to hang out with us
today you can definitely listen in there
so for those that don't know bright to
repair is a movement was trying to get a
set of laws passed in the states that'll
help us fix our stuff what kinds of
things can you give us like a summary of
what they would it'll require and fill
people in the for me yes the crush
is how do we bring balance back to the
universe how do we get back to a place
where we could fix all of our things and
as we have add the electronics into
everything you know a microcontroller
can be as low as 25 cents nowadays and
that's why you have green cards with
that will play a happy birthday so
that's actually got a microcontroller in
it the world of adding software and
electronics to all of our products is
handing manufacturers the opportunity to
either monopolize or flat-out just shut
out repair and so the right to repair
laws are a framework that is designed to
bring balance back in the universe make
it so that everybody else can fix things
and we're not into reinventing the wheel
here we actually have laws on the books
we talked about this in the past in
Massachusetts in 2012 past the first
other right to repair law it's been very
successful making sure that independent
mechanics can compete can continue to
fix the same kind of new vehicles as the
dealerships even some design changes
starting in the 2018 model year cars
were mandated as a result of that bill
so the the right repair laws that are
being discussed all over the world and
it's not just a mess now so that's now
since our last episode Canada Inc
introduced a bill in the Ontario
Parliament Michael Cato introduced a
bill which is really exciting and he's
gotten a lot of international press
around it we've been working with CNBC a
bit to do you know special features
unlike where your smartphone like
materials come from and you know how
these things are made and then how
they're disposed have been repaired and
you know dealt with at the end of their
life so really cool just excited to have
right to repair in Canada because people
are always asking us on the podcast like
ok this is for us States but how do I
get involved if I'm not in the US cuz
Europe's taking strides and far ahead of
us and they have a lot more kind of
focus on irons in the fire with write to
repair but now Canada's on to which is
which is awesome and and I think the
here in the states you know to get laws
passed in individual states we just need
a lot of grassroots movement grassroots
movement and people on like boots on the
ground and featuring these fixers so we
can start saying hey manufacturers like
if you make parts in information
available we can fix our own things or
we at least need these resources
available to people so they have more
options so you you know you're not stuck
taking your car into the
the dealership to get an oil change and
it's similar for your phone so I feel
like that's kind of why we always make
that comparison but so to kind of show
more people fixing things we came up
with the I'm a genius campaign so for
the last two weeks we've asked people to
submit their repair stories and just
share tell us the kind of things you're
fixing post a story I feel like I mean
there's some element of infantilization
of society where where the manufacturers
and the Apple Genius is saying I'm
holier than thou I'm smarter than you
we're the only ones that know how to do
this when we are testifying and on write
repair legislation in the States I just
constantly bring up is we're the only
ones that know how to do this safely if
anyone else does this to hurt themselves
yeah constantly being told that we're
not capable or don't have the skills or
that it's too dangerous when you know
the call today we have to do people
under the age of 18 that are running
their own repair businesses right yeah
there was why we wanted to invite these
guys so there I'm super impressed by the
breadth of expertise in our community
from all over the place and and to
people that we've been most impressed by
are joining us here on the call today so
we have Surya on the call from Michigan
hey Surya an Caesarea tell us how old
you are and maybe how old you were when
you started fixing things
so I'm 18 now I turned 18 in January
I've been fixing things almost forever
my first kind of memory of me fixing
things was with a small RC car in second
grade
one of my neighbors ran over it was a
bike so I had to have to find a way to
solder the tiny wires back with my dad
helped me with that I started fixing
phones at ninth grade eighth and ninth
grade and I realized with all the
tutorials all the advice and all the
YouTube videos online that anyone could
fix their own a phone so after that I
decided that I need to cater of my
business towards high school students
because let's be honest too kind of
broke and they don't want example all
the time so I thought I could finally
find
unmet need there and it kind of quickly
caught support and it's spread the
chordoma
so I remember hearing that your mom came
in and found like a wad of $100 bills
that you had earned from the swapping
screens and stuff what was that
conversation like was this like when did
you start dealing drugs folded-over
[Laughter]
she was supportive but make sure that
allocating time towards my schoolwork
well we might finish something I've
learned a lot from this definitely well
we appreciate you guys taking the time
out of school and stuff to be here and
congratulations on turning 18 happy
belated birthday big deal yeah no that's
just it's incredible to see her you guys
just start fixing one thing and that was
one thing with the guy mad genius
campaign people were saying I opened up
one phone and for me it was very similar
and I fixed that I opened up one phone
was like okay well now I can open
cameras and laptops and things just
aren't so scary so that RC car you know
was you know there was a gateway drug we
drug the Moses and Mark are also here
and have somewhat of a similar story
with you know starting a road repair
business yeah tell us about Moses tell
us about maybe your first couple fixes
and how you decided to start your repair
businesses and fixing things Yohan first
of all Moses how old are you oh yeah so
I'm 15 and I did my first repair in 2016
so I think I was 13 at that time
something like that and it was a 2008
MacBook it had a cracked screen and I
got it for free from one of my dad's
coworkers and see that really started it
all that's a pretty advanced first
repair yeah yeah then I am fixed my
sister's iPod Touch for later both
pretty hard repairs
yeah that's not an easy very so tell me
is your as you're going through the
process with this MacBook you've got it
you know the screens broken see and he'd
open up somehow what was your thought
process um well I've always liked lay
Apple products and it was free so I was
like worse can go wrong like nothing
really can go wrong other than breaking
it and I don't I don't lose anything
right so already broken I want to make
it worse and it's like but it's not
functioning right now so you know you
don't do anything then it's really just
sitting there and so uh how did you how
did you learn how to take apart I mean
you know apples the most technologically
advanced company on the planet you're
taking apart their computer how did you
get the confidence so I just went to
your website I think I had heard of it
before and earlier that year I had
gotten some free water damage phones and
so I like I had looked you up then for
like guides but I didn't have any parts
or tools to fix them but so when I got
the MacBook I bought a pro tect toolkit
and then just followed your guides and
it was pretty easy so getting all of
these where you getting all these
devices from you start slowly start
collecting I see this with a lot of the
fixer well I would say most fixers are
like low-key hoarders sometimes we're
like you just start hitting all of these
projects that start sitting like I'll
fix it one day I'll fix it one day but
where'd you get all all of those devices
from all the so I got the water damage
ones from kids at school because they
like eighth graders middle schoolers
they break phones all the time just tons
of them and then the MacBook I got from
his work one of his coworkers
so the word starts to get out I remember
when I was in the high school I kind of
had the reputation at the school with
all the teachers that I was the guy to
come to when they had computer problems
have you ever been pulled out of class
by another teacher that go and fix their
computer not out of class cuz we're in a
fairly big school so we have like an IT
department okay but I know like back in
elementary school I would help the
teachers help the teachers I see Surya
nodding his head sorry what's your
experience mostly teachers sometimes I
can't get guard for the projector on and
at the time
Samsung Galaxy s5 movie I are blessed on
it so I felt super cool like turning a
particular on that mean another friend
we kind of help around the school with
Wi-Fi and teachers who have problems
connecting to it but yeah we're kind of
a pseudo IT department also do you um
how do you help others get started with
repair like it just seems like it's kind
of this empowering thing like you get to
be the one to kind of help people fix
the problems that they that they can't
but they can't fix and so do you help
other people fix things and what do you
see when what do you see when you're
working with other people and like that
aha moment so after my fifth or sixth
repair I wanted kind of help people
repair their own phones because I don't
want to think just do it all myself and
I want to actually I won't have people
learn about their devices so one of my
neighbors actually came over and he I
think his family is comfortable so they
kind of they can buy new phones to get
buy parts for that pretty video
frequently so he had an iPhone iPhone 6s
and I told them like here the parts here
the tools and here's a guy and he was
pretty scared at first because he didn't
want to break the phone but after after
he kind of slowly followed the steps
checked his progress on I think anyone
could do it this pistol his first repair
was fine and right now he's helping more
friends ticks their phones so I think
it's getting over that first hurdle of
okay I have a lot of resources at my
hand if I could take time take patience
go step by step
keep your parts in order I think anyone
can do anytime yeah and I feel like it's
like putting together an a piece of Ikea
furniture but with better instructions
it's you know if you stay organized it
sometimes you know it's process but the
resources are there Moses how about you
have you helped anybody else kind of
learn repair and seen that kind of
trickle-down effect of everybody fixing
things
I mean I haven't like helped like do
smartphone repair but I've definitely
helped other people like take apart
things just for fun that we're like
already broken and stuff like that yeah
tear down tear downs are pretty cool
myself but so you both it like that
you've taken this kind of next step with
like getting involved with right to
repair and I know that you've both
written into your state Reps and one
thing that we do on the call is we you
know tell people hey like just write a
letter write a phone call like meet with
your state rep so Moses what was it like
writing that letter to your state
legislator because I read over it and it
was awesome but did you find it easy
difficult like what what are tips for
some other people that are gonna write
into their state reps about write repair
I thought it was pretty easy
he never ended up responding so I don't
know why but yeah I thought it was
pretty easy just like explained what it
was about on repair dot word they have
like pretty good explanation of what
it's about so I just kind of followed
that and you did an awesome job with
just sharing your story and I think that
that's what a lot of these you know
state reps need to hear I just it's like
strength in numbers the more stories and
things that I get from people the more
it's like oh this is an issue that we
need to really push forward there was a
there was a viral video this last week
where a bunch of kids from a California
school were talking to say an Feinstein
about the green new deal and saying hey
what about us what about like climate
change is going to impact us why don't
you do something about us and she was so
dismissive but but I don't that's not
the experience that we've gotten from
state Reps with Rachel Perry though
hello yeah and I think the same thing
applies for you waste I mean you could
have the same similar group of kids
standing in front people saying hey if
we don't do something now it's gonna
turn into a Walley world of trash and
the things that's kind of like where
we're headed
Surya you you wrote to your state reps
and you got a reply I think did did she
call you what was that reply like and
yeah don't on resources on how to format
your on a format your letters and
everything so I just at that point I
care about me exactly timeline
like iPhone aid stuff iPhone 6 touches
as you carry around that timeline but I
say if companies can just temporary up
the electronic got tampered if companies
can remotely brick your phone brick your
phone with software that the repairs
don't know about what's stopping them
from doing any other things so I decided
to write a letter and my letter was
basically trying to sell my story so I
think important thing we were writing to
state legislators and state senators to
make sure you still sell a story sell an
idea and show how it can help a lot help
everyone if you write just a story about
how it saved yourself or how it made
your company your business better it's
not gonna do as well as this is what
write your para is this is how can help
everyone is how it can get jobs this is
how can increase competition so I think
make sure making sure to sell that idea
a writer but that's great advice
so what response did you get from from
your letter so around four weeks I was
actually in India at the time but I did
get an email from her from the season
her secretary and after that she told me
to come down to an office that she had
in Ann Arbor oh cool I speaking with her
for around an hour or so on what might
cheer bear is and so you get invited by
the senator to come into her office what
does that feel like it's definitely
super cool like especially for high
school student I think we think everyone
in government is super high up they
don't like talk to us but and then they
these people weren't for us they are our
state legislators them their job is to
listen to their constituents and what I
did was kind of exercising what small
power I had to talk to my state
representative so definitely is super
cool and I would encourage a lot of
people to write to their own say
representatives so what kind of
questions and I did describe like you
walk into the office and describe what
it was like bakkasur you're here quell
emotional journey here Oh
first part was kind of weird because the
door was locked so I was
four on 15 not 59 10 15 minutes I feel
someone like notice a kid outside the
door oh but after that lady that we
fancy lady look like this we fancy suits
and everything they were like to sit
down and I just waited what is he like a
nice small conference room
I did not learn human being something so
then the senator comes in and what was
the what was there her first question
for you or just like you give us a bit
of how the conversation went well the
conversation was definitely very
positive she she kind of was familiar
with right here very not um the auto
writer there so she was familiar with
mechanics were able to fix other cars
get parts from dealerships get parts of
other car companies and she was
inquiring about the situation with
electronics so I think she educated me
on on the lunch lady event and I had
educated her on that the electronics in
so it was um I learned a lot and she
learned a lot and it was very very
productive conversation that's great I
mean that's exactly the kind of thing
that you want from what you represent
yeah and you and you want to have that
back and forth because you know going
back to like the repair stories this
applies to more than just phones and
tablets and I think that when we're
talking about right to repair we focus
on that tech that a lot of people are
uncomfortable with so if you can educate
them better on the electronics aspect
and get them to realize that it's more
than just phones and laptops that mean
you know right to repair but that's huge
and that opportunity's huge and so Moses
we got a maybe ping your your rep on
Twitter and Moses like it's right to
repair passes I know you know you
haven't had a conversation with your
state reps yet but if right to repair
passes that I guess what are you most
excited about with right to repair
passing um if you know Ethan when like
what does this world look like to do
when it passes I think it'd be nice to
have like access to the tools to fix
like touch ID and face ID because that's
a big problem and I know I just had a
mistake with that
but like it's cuz we go the resources
aren't out there and that's why you know
we do these tear downs and things to
take them apart so if people have a
first look and like a sneak peek into
like what you're getting into before you
yeah you start fixing things so if you
don't mind those and I think this is
this is you know all of us make mistakes
when you might walk us through your
touch ID mistake uh yeah
so I was taking the I took the screen
off and I was removing the home button
on a seven and I tried to get a spudger
under it and I just slipped a little and
the cables so fragile that it just split
it's a super fragile cable and and
that's just so devastating because it's
the one thing that you can't fix without
apple's fancy machine yep
so what did you end up doing with the
thong um so I found a micro soldering
shop in New York and I sent it to that
fantastic yes so just to loop everybody
in that isn't familiar with this
particular problem the touch ID sensor
on the iPhone is cryptographically tied
to the main board and when Apple
programs the the phones at the factory
they pair the the home button with the
with the main circuit board if you do a
repair later if the home button fails
there's nothing you can do but if you're
opening it you accidentally damaged that
cable you're stuck because now the
fingerprint sensor won't work and so
either you have to fix the particular
home button that you have or you're out
of luck
and and so your approach I think is a
great one which is to actually find a
way to fix the individual cable which
requires probably equipment that there's
a little bit higher end than you can
afford right now maybe that's something
that you can work up to yeah Microsoft
that's that's my goal I got a microscope
but now I'm working up to saving for a
soldering iron fantastic and have you
been watching the videos we had Lewis
rossmann on last last episode have you
watched some of Lewis's videos well you
me did yeah yeah I've watched both Lewis
and jessa cool so who would you say you
know as you guys are kind of looking up
to the the people who are repair
professionals out there who do you look
up to who
you're heroes alysus of both people will
start with Moses um so like I said Louis
and Jessa they're both like great at
Microsoft and like yeah and then also
Federico cerva I think is how you
pronounce him his name he's in the UK
and he also does micro soldering and see
yeah
probably this awesome sorry you can look
up to
- tech tips like a few years ago
and I saw this thing embroidered - okay
very interested in and outside phones
and tablets so I've been watching a lot
of car rebuilders so people like bees
for build - varnished I like those guys
a lot I think looking at how the car
dealers and how the companies sell their
parts is definitely very inspiring and
something right your parents have like
something all the companies can look
forward to I've definitely seen I've
seen lots of Louis's videos I I also
watch all over it rebuilds Tesla videos
so I think I've been trying to diversify
what can be repaired people's kind of
niche skills and repairing things right
rich has a great Channel he buys these
completely busted like salvage Tesla's
there's been a you know weather damage
or something pulls them apart and builds
new cars either and he says Tesla's are
really repairable yeah I think he says
Tesla built a Lego car it's really easy
to the work on but there's no
documentation or there hasn't been
documentation recently but there's got
to be somebody to start it feel like you
started back in the day with certain
guides and he's starting with this soon
that's because it's like yeah there are
so many resources out there but it's a
matter of like to fix your thing you
need a whole set of resources cuz you
need parts tools and you know schematics
or guides or something so um and that's
you know right trip I think will kind of
bring everything together and I think we
were talking on Twitter I think earlier
this week and you guys expressed some
concern over like if I prepare
well I fix it be the out of the job and
like what will happen and really when
right for a pair of passes there just be
more parts in more of these resources
and things to go around because there
are so many things that need to be fixed
that you know I fix it and private
repair shops those micro Sol doors that
you went to your for your phone like
we're always going to need them and I
feel like they'll never be enough you
know like I don't think so there's also
I mean there are real limits to the
manufacturer information right even if
if we we get manufacture provide that
service Mandelson schematics that takes
you so far I mean I I remember trying to
change out the light bulb I have a Honda
Civic and I I was in the manual I got to
the point where where it said you know
remove this bolt and then you can remove
the headlight assembly and I couldn't
the bolt was crude that it turns out
every Honda Civic that is 20 years old
this one bolt corrodes and so then you
have to go and remove the entire thing
and I was following through the
instructions on that and then they got
to step seven which was removed the
front bumper it's like oh no this is not
a Sunday night at 9:00 p.m. so I I think
that some of the technology that I fix
it provides being a wiki something to
Apollo something where we can have
expert members of the community like you
guys join in and improve things that I
don't think it will make I fix up sleep
but if it does and all the manufacturer
to step up and have fantastic repair
information hey the world's probably
better if we're not needed
I am fine to go solve some other problem
so I wanted that we've got one of the
parents here mark mark with I've it's
interesting seeing like some parents
that kind of respond to kid fixers in
like really positive way you you're
obviously one of them that like help
support your son on this mission in this
business and things but then we've also
got a lot of parents and a lot of people
I think that are just like fraid of
technology that are like afraid of their
kids doing these things we kind of goes
back to like the safety issue that
always gets brunt with state reps but
mark how have you like supported Moses
and what if we want more fixers the next
generation of people to be fixers I just
kind of want some advice for parents I'm
like what if your kid comes to you and
says look I opened up this phone you
know instead of saying you know here's a
kitten can we
like how did you get those creative or
the right to repair Jesus forces
yeah well I am I'm super proud of Moses
and both these guys I mean the stuff
that they do my brain is not wired that
way I'm a photographer of a creative I
spend a lot of my time mentoring people
and helping to draw out of them what's
in their hearts and so taking a phone
apart kind of freaks me out
but so I we saw this passion in Moses
and so what we really wanted to do was
just kind of create space for him to be
able to just do what he loved to do so I
was way more nervous than he was when he
opened up that first laptop screen and
the first phone screen he had a client
recently who was getting a battery
replacement I think or maybe something
with this screen and the guy came
upstairs and Moses workshop was just
kind of looking over his shoulder which
I wouldn't probably give that access but
so I think what I'm trying to say is
just to kind of create space find out
things that your kids are passionate
about and then give them room to make
mistakes like when when that out home
button busted I could tell on his voice
most like that can you come here no it's
like oh this doesn't sound good so
there's been a few of those times
sometimes where he gets to cover the
cost of something and there's been other
times where my wife and I'll step in and
say hey we're gonna cover this we're
entrepreneurs so we know what it's like
there's no way to do this perfectly so
they given the freedom to make mistakes
is a big big part of it to projects you
know these things happen every day I
mean no matter how careful your being
sometimes you you know cut that home
button cable or you know these things
kind of happen when you're starting your
own business like yeah that can be
definitely scary it's Syria what did
your parents think when you were
starting your first repair business were
they super supportive or were they kind
of nervous um how did they feel about
you fixing other people's devices as a
business yeah of course so for my first
repair my first like $20 screener so my
mom came in to $20 like seed money
and I managed to get enough funds
repaired I think around 20 phones for me
to able to cover the cost of one phone
and that happened once when I I fixed
this I fixed a phone and then I hadn't
put the pedal it screws in and then my
dog not came and knocked up my
phone on the table and it cracked
everything again but this time it was
taught worse than just the screen it was
like the lost board connectors some feet
the front panel connectors roll busted
so I I had to buy a new phone then other
than that they've just basically left
all the financial stuff to me if they
want to find any extra money they'll
pitch in but mostly for them it's
maintaining a balance between my
education and my business and then the
rest them to me yeah I started I fix it
when I was a freshman and balancing
figure out how to balance your work life
and and school is challenging cuz you'll
have a customer that's waiting on you
and you need to do homework which do I
do
did you get in trouble at Cal Poly for
running the business out of the dorm it
was technically yeah we started in the
dorms and yeah it was technically
against the the housing contract they
made this sign you weren't supposed to
run the business out of your job but
I've never heard of anyone enforcing
that it's a perfect incubator I don't
know I'm curious if you guys if you
think back Syria - so you're kind of the
first time you tried taking things apart
oftentimes parents are considering their
kid gets a screwdriver and they start
taking apart the toaster and then they
get panicked and they say don't do that
do you have a memory like that I
actually have more on this memory with
my grandparents because they live India
they have the 220 volt which is a lot
higher power and a lot more dangerous
than here and when I was in fifth grade
they bought me one of those McKenna
since it's like um metal metal screws
and bolts so think Legos go with metal
and once they seen once they saw me kind
of venture towards the plug point with
my screwdriver and they call it super
this thing I super scared and then they
took the toy away from me but other than
that my my dad has been pretty
supportive
he's kind of he's he's a surgeon so he's
very good with his hands
and sometimes many help finding like a
small screw or something he's very good
it's amazing that in that practice that
you have when you do that that kind of
thing professionally well we have we
have seen this over and over there seems
to be a cultural challenge where parents
are always telling the kids don't take
that thing apart and I think it's part
of like you know don't run out into the
street his parents being protective but
they're almost overly protective
I've run events at schools and will say
hey do I thank Martin iPod and the kids
are terrified because every adult in
their life up until that point and said
don't take that thing apart yeah I'm
surprised when I go into schools by how
many just students don't even know how
to like push down with the screwdriver
so don't even know how to use it because
yeah that was the toolbox that you're
not supposed to touch and you know mommy
and daddy will fix it it's too dangerous
but is that something that you guys see
with your classmates Moses do you see
kind of fear of opening things yeah I
mean none of my classmates really have
any desire to fix anything I don't think
or I don't know they're I think they're
just too afraid I guess I'm not sure why
do you like fixing things like why do
you I know I like doing like doing these
for our project cuz it's fun I get to
have fun while doing it I'm not sure why
I think it's fun but I do and then also
like saves money and I get to make new
things right sorry or whether you enjoy
the most
whether you enjoy it the most about
fixing things
I honestly find it really relaxing I
don't know why but I know like the
torque of the screw I finally go into
its place or else roid 7 super relaxing
to me at a point in the seventh grade I
think I started taking apart so many
things I haven't been back there with a
bunch of circuit boards from everything
and I've there's probably been a time
when my dad's look for a remote and
can't find it because I've taken IR LEDs
out of it so I like taking stuff apart a
lot that's great so as you think about
the arc of history you know like
migraine
in the 1930s everybody had to repair
everything there was this make do and
mend mentality had World War two and you
know we were really research constrained
and so so anything that people had was
really precious there there's this
general perception that you know we
don't fix things the way that we used to
that repair doesn't make as much sense
anymore what do you think your
generations relationship is with things
compared to say my generation and Syria
take it away yeah so definitely I grew
up on a VCR and I remember the hardware
store design like the vacuum tubes the
parts you can prepare your own stuff
with and over time I've definitely seen
people I've never seen companies go from
more open to closed electronics and kind
of using technologies to advance from
you to kind of rationalize the decision
to close it out but my friends and stuff
in like second or third grade I had a
few my buddies we like to take apart a
bunch of stuff but over time we noticed
that some of our friends we're giving an
iPhones were given phones and because of
the expense how much that product cost
God they didn't want to take risk with
it and this is kind of along the time
runs the city jailbreaking stuff was out
people didn't want to take risk with
that stuff let's say that this stuff is
good or not but people started over time
to become more concerned with keeping
their vice attack keeping the product
making sure they don't break it instead
of learning more about what product they
have and how that product works mm-hmm
and so yeah I'm just trying to message
you if you could turn your mic a little
closer to you so we can hear you a
little louder the beef that'd be awesome
but I think the yeah the value that we
place on the things that we own I think
you know our grandparents generation you
know buying that first car I'm making
some these purchases were just so
insanely difficult for them that like
you know there was they wanted to invest
in their stuff and I think because our
you know disposable kind of society and
planned obsolescence and things just
made well I just I think it's just it's
easy for people to get something new and
so that's like that cold so I think
that's true but on the other hand you
guys are the first generation that has
been given something very expensive at a
relatively young age for us it was a car
like when you maybe when you turn 16 it
was legal to drive maybe you were going
to get a car and certainly you would be
paying to fix it if you did anything to
it
Moses how do you think seeing all your
friends with these expensive phones you
know 10 years ago
kids didn't have a device in their
pocket that was worth $400 yes so I mean
I think a lot of people were
irresponsible sometimes they like you
drop them and feel like people need to
put screen protectors on more but but I
feel like a lot of people just want the
newest thing and a lot of my friends
will just get the newest thing and yeah
I feel like they don't want it to get it
repaired they just want the newest
device so why don't you want the newest
thing does it you know the iPhone eight
verse of the iPhone tenth you know is it
just not the biggest difference do you
just like holding on to your stuff like
why don't you want the next best thing
it's mainly just like how expensive it
is and like how I can get similar
devices for a lot cheaper by fixing them
yeah makes sense to me thank you guys so
much for joining us this has been a
fantastic conversation it's I think it's
really interesting to see how yeah as
effects on the ground of change right
people or kids have access to more more
advanced technology the younger age and
yet I think I think that the
fundamentals of whether you're you're
tinkering with transistor radio in the
80s or an Atari 2600 for me it was the
early Mac's and the early 90s and you
guys are working with with the modern
smartphones kids are always going to be
pushing the envelope of working with and
breaking and fixing those I can't open
this I'm gonna try to open it so thank
you guys so much for joining us and for
taking time away from school really
appreciate it yeah and yeah the I'm a
genius campaign is still going on all
through the
and if you share your repair story with
hashtag I'm a genius you can take a look
at Moses and Syria submissions I've got
a link in the description and just by
following us on Twitter and if you share
your own video to to the campaign
we're gonna pick ten people to get a
hundred dollar gift card so the ethics
at store so you could be one of the
people to win that so again we've the
I'm a genius has just been awesome we've
seen so many amazing videos just from
these two as well and we'd love to hear
more about your repair stories and why
repair is important to you in your life
so feel free to yeah share another one
with us and we'll be back here next
Thursday for and we'll be bringing on
some more right to repair advocates and
talking a little bit more how well you
can get involved at the state level but
yeah thanks again for being here
everybody yeah thanks for having your
son absolutely we'll see you guys later
what is some of the other news that's
been going on we have yeah well at the
end of talking about all the different
types of phones and things that they use
but the samsung folding phones and I
wish I don't know they have a chance
like I've been curious I think you guys
are welcome to hop off we will we will
catch you next time thanks guys so some
of the other news that I've seen is yes
I mean people have been asking me with
the huawei phones whether we think about
the new Huawei OLED and the and the
Samsung phones and I think it I think
it's a pretty cool pretty cool kids mode
it reminds me of like Star Trek and you
had like the foldable tablet yeah I
think that's kind of the vision that
everybody has with with the tablets how
do we get and then we get to something
that is basically paper and these gizmos
are not quite there I mean they just I
don't know I'm just oh wait I feel like
everybody's opening and closing them
constantly using them and having like
another hinge there's just like another
point of failure and how do we just I
don't I don't see them as phones that
would last
for me but maybe I just got to stop like
shoving things in my back pocket and
well in the OLED technology is its own
UI I was talking at CES with some of the
LG folks where they have the rollable
TVs and say well how many times can I go
up and down they said like 200,000 times
maybe but certainly have it in your
pocket it's that folding radius where
it's gonna be pinching and if you look
at it in the photos you get this kind of
crinkly plasticky look right at the at
the where rounds around and I think it's
gonna I think they're very expensive
right there you can head over to the
Samsung one yeah yeah go back to Korea
and Moses were saying just about the
price of these things and it's like well
I already have a laptop and maybe I
already have a tablet at home with my
phone so like do I just combine
everything into one and just you know
get that one yeah I don't know that I
necessarily have what they need there
but what are the comments were getting
some awesome comments on repairing a
folding phone screen sounds extremely
difficult and very expensive once the
screen is the device at that point and
the question is how do you separate it I
mean we have certainly a I was thinking
the closest analogy that we have is the
Galaxy edge phones right where we
generally give the Galaxy edge devices a
lower like a one point lower score that
so an s9 edge scores lower and the
reason is that the screen is it folds
around it makes it harder to open it and
and it's also just a much more expensive
commode to manufacture it's been really
hard for as you know I mean justifiably
so the manufacturers push the envelope
with technology it's been harder for
aftermarket companies to catch up and
we've seen this like if you if you have
an iPhone 10 with no LED screen and you
break it there are aftermarket LEDs that
can go in your iPhone 10 that maybe
won't be quite as good as your original
screen but they're dramatically cheaper
than an OLED part I I just want to want
to do a tearing out of one and see like
what does this repair process look like
or especially Motorola's even got
another you know the new razor that's
coming out but is rumored to have you
know full it's still a folding phone but
folds up and into one the flat screen is
cooling it's just like and that's gonna
be an OLED flexible I guess and so I
just wonder I don't know changing the
shape of these tear downs or either
usually opening something from the front
or
in the park but this is kind of another
monster you got for a design well it's
also going to be antsy as they're coming
out with to these products how are they
going to comply away we're going to get
right to repair legislation pass right
we're very optimistic things are going
well how are they going to comply what
are they sorry to build out these parts
supply chains so if you and if you build
a so what's gonna happen with these
manufacturers that are building devices
that you know can't be repaired and
right to repair comes out they're gonna
be asked to provide parts but yeah it's
just about like you literally like the
essential phone we froze it to break it
together right this is a philosophical
question where you and Rachel pair has
not gone to the point where it's saying
really that you have to make design
changes with the one notable exception
the Washington Rachel repair bill says
that it actually makes it illegal for
manufacturers to glue batteries in the
phones so that's really interesting
because that's the first time we've seen
a jurisdiction say there is a design
that we don't want to see the reference
legislation from our parallel or doesn't
say anything about the device design and
so you can circumvent right to repair by
gluing something together and making it
so that no one can fix it and that's
effectively what the earpods are right
so the air pods are unrepairable
unrecyclable they're they're completely
glued together Apple has a battery
service for their hundred and yeah it's
$100 for a battery service for one of
your ear buds or it doesn't even really
make sense that may be right to repair
2.0 we've seen some interests from
Europe and regulating device design a
little bit and and so I think you may
see in regulating design does it mean
you know stopping progress with
technology it's just about doing it
responsibly because I mean I think I
always say this manufacturers have like
a responsibility to develop and when
they're selling a product it needs to
last so that means it needs to be
repairable and I think you can have
repairable design and progressive design
at the same time I think one of the
kickbacks we get it's like oh this is
gonna stop innovation it's like in what
world with right now
please innovate in the space of repair
yeah please innovate a way that's not
going to kill the planet and all the
resources these things and yeah I I get
the opportunity to work with industrial
design there's a
and we talked with them and they talked
about how they have design constraints
they're given objectives from the
business we want it to be this thick we
want the battery life to be this we want
the performance to this and if they're
given repairability objectives these
designers are very smart people they
were very capable of making these things
repairable and accomplishing some of the
other objectives there may be some
trade-offs that you're going to make but
we I mean as we work on our tear downs
we work under repair ability reports
right we get the chance to talk with
what the product designers and a lot of
them say look we really would like to be
able to prioritize repairability we need
assistance from the business we need
assistance from marketing and management
to decide to make it a prayer yeah and
but I think that's where you know our
tear downs in the repair that
repairability assessments come in and to
have that I think it'd be nice just have
more of an open dialogue with that I
think manufacturers are gonna come down
to consumers right having the
conversation comes on the gadget
reviewers like where is right the purge
or wire cutter or some of these industry
leading news organizations should be
making repairability a priority in their
reviews and that was we had the the
review of the sneakers the the
self-flying sneakers and and one of the
things she mentioned this hey you good
you're putting batteries in these
sneakers the battery is going to wear
out maybe before the Seekers do what's
the plan here and even wrote a blog on
iPhone which is they're required to
provide parts and things for seven years
but yeah like what's how like in these
reviews they ought to say okay battery
life is this long you'll get this much
screen time out of it but it's like but
what's your investment looking like is
this a one a two year investment or you
know it's just specially when
everything's really it's only what the I
bowed they said that they were going to
support it for seven years
yeah so that's with the most recent
iteration but they'll have parts
available for seven years now your
warranty is only I think it has like a
three-day like an extended three-year
warranty so they offer
updates and everything's but you have to
pay into that too so maybe there's like
limited words but thinking about it and
I think they learned from the first AIBO
that if you're going to sell people a
robot dog they will get emotionally
attached to it yeah and that longevity
of your pet maybe matters and that
becomes part of the product value
proposition right that's part of what
you're selling is hey this this robot
dog is so good that you're going to
demand that
you make a repair options available for
you in four years
I feel similarly about my laptop like
you know I mean and then talk about like
brand dedication like if you can tell
somebody that we know that this is an
investment for you and we're gonna
continue to support it or you know with
AIBO we want you to be in love with this
robot dog for a long time that builds
like brand dedication and I think I
don't know that that would I would love
to hear that more from manufacturers
like we want you to keep this for a long
time and like you know use it to that I
don't I know I got this laptop from
iFixit this is an interesting example
where this particular product we both
have the 2012 MacBook Pro and it has a
design flaw that where there is a hard
drive cable on the bottom so if I have
your laptop right on the bottom here
where the hard drive basically the
bottom case is aluminum is as it flexes
it rubs against that cable and so pretty
much every every one of these MacBook
Pro so it's been out in the world for
more than four or five years eventually
you're you get the blinky question mark
on Buddha well it's it's a design flaw
they should have put some shielding on
the cable but it actually ends up not
being that bad right because it is so
easy to open up the case you get ten
screws on the bottom and you can swap
out the cable that repair takes less
than ten minutes and it's like a twenty
dollar cable where let's compare that to
let's compare that to the current the
other 2015 and newer MacBook Pros where
in the display hinge they they have the
same kind of flex cable right and every
time you open and close the display it
flexes that cable and that cable has a
limited design that also is a design
flaw the difference is that they glued
the the display shut in such a way that
you really cannot change that Cape and
so either you have to do something like
what Moses did where you take it to a
Microsoft or and they actually fix that
into Fugs cable or you have to replace
the display assembly which is a part
that cannot be made by the aftermarket
because the Apple logo is on the back
here right and then be careful of those
a not yea those parts they'll probably
take those purse for you at some point
yeah I think this is an interesting
discussion where we're you know to some
extent repairable II helps shield
manufacturers in consumers from kinda
inevitable designers
and and that's that's something that the
yeah another major mistake back in the
day was the Xbox 360 had this rendering
and death problem where almost every
Xbox out there ended up failing because
because the the GPU with overheat and it
would it would crack this other well
Xbox it was repairable and you could
open up but it took a while and I think
that has definitely informed like the
cost that Microsoft had to expend taking
all those under warranty disassembling
them all putting them back together was
really I mean they were they had a
billion-dollar right now over it and and
I think they're saying man if we had
designed that to be just a little bit
faster that open up yeah well it were
the custom a lot less
I wonder what Apple's thinking about the
battery gate thing I'm like well maybe
if we just you know offered battery
replacing things a little bit sooner you
know like less people would have you
know freaked out about the throttling
thing more people their phones would
have been wouldn't have been forced it
or maybe as Apple stores are so impacted
like you try to get the appointment an
Apple story its weeks out it's really
hard so if they could design the phone
to make the battery faster the swap it
would be interesting yeah and we see
they're trying to do this with the
newest iPads right you had they had some
of those have the pull tabs you see some
of those design changes I feel like more
from Apple and in their products than we
do in Samsung products I think a lot of
people will point out that we we talk
about Apple a lot because we're at
opposite ends with them within the great
repair and they're really advocating
pretty hard against us but Samsung like
I would rather open up and swap a screen
on an iPhone or a pair of battery than
the Samsung it's just like it makes me
cringe if you look at all the smart
phones on the market right now the
iPhone is at the top of this because
Apple's engineers are designing
repairability into the process
specifically repair of the screen than
the battery Wraith is what they're
focused on but that absolutely is
something that you can really see in the
design language of the internals of that
foam where Samsung clearly is not
putting the same Freya and and gute you
know shame on Google right now the
pixels used to be pretty repairable and
they've gotten steadily worse you see
I used to have a pixel nice I switched I
am now I'm now rocking I have got a
mother x4 which is which is pretty great
and also a pretty repairable device
we've carried a lot today I mean it was
just cool to hear from stories from
Moses and
and just just another example of how
like how repair is for everybody and
yeah the right repair campaign is gonna
keep going through so we'll be seeing a
bunch of videos how is it been for you
to see all these videos and like hear
from everybody in the campaign it's just
been really inspiring to see the the
diversity of backgrounds that people are
coming up this with right where you have
people that have no technical expertise
to people of other professionals and
I've all do this through teaching each
other it's not just I fix it right it's
YouTube it's the repaired communities
everybody is teaching each other and it
really takes that momentum to build
enough of a community to start to
achieve change and we've got we didn't
bring it up earlier but Surya did a
great job starting a petition for
Michigan and I'll put it in the show
notes so if you want to sign on that
well so we'll put that in the
description also with repaired org and
repaired org slash sign - up too easily
right into your state Reps
and learn about Moses so Moses also has
Moses Buckwalter calm his repair website
and I just you guys check it out like
his they do a great job with photos and
just documenting repair with and the
videos and everything on there so really
inspiring and happy to have them on so
we'll put all those links and they might
already be in the this description but
they'll definitely be in the show notes
for the podcast folks and yeah don't
forget to share your videos for I'm a
genius
and we're gonna be putting all of those
together into two compilation videos on
our channel so you'll actually be able
to see all of our favorite submissions
and everything there and yeah it's
really important to show the world that
we can fix all these things so
definitely share your stories with that
the legislative season is in full swing
right now so we had we had hearings in
Washington right to repair we we got
voted out of committee in Washington
which is fantastic
we're anticipating we will see bills
being introduced in some more states
coming up soon so now is the time to get
right your legislator and get involved
every every state legislature in the
country is active right now and working
on on this issue and I can I actually I
have here I can pull up a map this
these are all the states that have rate
repair bills active right now so you can
see I mean the entire western coast
including Hawaii is on board it's got a
good art coming up in Montana North
Dakota South Dakota Minnesota Missouri
Illinois Kentucky West Virginia Virginia
New Jersey New York New Hampshire
Massachusetts Georgia we had a great
group of professional repair shops in
Georgia on on Tuesday where they they
went down to the State Capitol and they
they walked around and there was a great
showing of a lot of professional repairs
from across the state came and they came
into town so it was really really cool
to see all the professional or the pros
that submitted videos from a genius to
they were phenomenal did a really great
job I know just looking at Florida there
and I'm like we need to get something
going to Florida and I repair fastest
and awesome you know great channel we
just started working with they do lots
of repair and liquid cooling and all
that kind of stuff but they've been
great advocates and third video you know
about right to repair is awesome so
Florida's Republican controlled
legislature legislature so reach out to
your elected Republicans if you have the
RPG I mean talk with your local rep no
matter what but if you can look and see
which party is in power and talk with a
rep that is in the party that's in power
you're going to have more success and if
you talk to some of them the majority
right to repair is a bipartisan issue
everybody needs to be able to fix their
stuff and it breaks oh yeah doesn't
matter which side you're on go talk to
people because your story's gonna
resonate this is a common-sense
political issue right representatives on
both sides want want to represent
consumers represent both sides want more
local small businesses they want to see
more technology in classrooms
everybody wants a clean environment and
and a leave right a a planet for our
kids so this is this is really common
sense across the political spectrum the
only people who are against right to
repair are the lawyers at these big mega
corporations everyone else in the board
and everyone else in the world is on our
side yeah so this is just a matter of
overcoming that entrenched money in
politics
yeah just banding together have more
people than they do a lot of the
hearings and things like that to
someone's great well cover a lot and
we'll have more on next Thursday so feel
free to keep you know the chat going
with some more questions and things
about today if there's any other
resources that you want us to share and
we'll see the seawall in a couple weeks
thanks again for everybody for being on
that's a wrap