okay so we're just or when we can just
kinda tell stories while we're what
we're waiting for the feed to start but
so Michaels stuck where Michael was
going to be joining us and Michael is
stuck on the side of the road in Ohio
with a I think a diesel truck that won't
start because it's negative ten degrees
so Jets how are your kids in school your
kids home today they are home today they
had to go to school yesterday which was
a big shocker the night before we let
him stay up assuming school yesterday
and then today their although they're
all home okay well did you like wall
them off with a video game or something
so you can get enough quiet for Hong
Kong oh yes I did I found some old
copies of the Laura Ingalls Wilder books
do you guys remember that I said you
have to read a chapter of this and I'll
be really impressed if you read more
than a chapter that's a 13 how cold this
is in Boston I think it's up to like 12
degrees it was 2 degrees with negative
16 windchill when I took the kids to
school this morning
okay well how cold does it have to get
before they cancel school in Boston
my son's in kindergarten so I've never
experienced it I assume you know colder
than that here if it freezes we might
cancel school yeah if it ever snowed
they would cancel school yeah yeah we're
whistles okay well I think I think we're
ready to get started
hello everyone across the Internet
hey I'm Kelsey I'm Kyle and yeah this is
the first fight weekly livestream
talking about right to repair so um I
guess for those of you who don't know
about right to repair you can always get
caught up on repair org and i6h org on
our blog we've got a recent blog article
talking about everything that's ramping
up for 2019 but I see already in
comments people were like what the heck
is right to repair which is great that
means that your need right to repair and
we're here to kind of inform you and
talk about how to get involved and we've
got a lot of leaders on the call today
we'll have some different guests every
week and different topics and talking
about news and all that kind of stuff
but uh what's right to repair so right
to repair is a movement and it's working
to get laws passed in the states so
manufacturers have to provide us with
parts and repair documentation kind of
like they do with our cars right right
so increasingly local repair shops are
being shut out of being able to fix
things and and as I fix it you know our
mission is to enable everybody to fix
their things we provide information and
tools to repair shops and consumers and
what we're finding is that there are
increasing legal battles for example if
you have an iPhone with a Apple logo on
the back pin on the back panel there's
no way to make an aftermarket back panel
because you'd have to put the Apple logo
on it so we need Apple to sell us those
parts but they refused and it's not just
Apple there's lots of companies Nikon
decided to stop selling service parts to
local camera dealers and that's really
been been a hardship for local camera
repair and we're seeing this happens in
industry after industry where where
manufacturers are seeing an opportunity
for monopolies in service and keep it
all in-house because it benefits them
but it doesn't benefit us because we
bought it we only need to be able to fix
and maintain it longer than just what
the manufacturers say which is you know
the lowest amount of time that they can
offer so what's the history on this
because right we've been kind of
advocating and fighting for right to
repair for over 15 years like yeah and
what's crazy about right repair is that
it's a concept that predates the
electronics industry really goes back to
the 1970s when the EPA rolled out some
new requirements that that cars would
have to have like mufflers and catalytic
converters because we have a crazy smog
problems in LA and so they started
rolling out increase
emissions requirements for vehicles but
the concern was that all of the
aftermarket
like local mechanics wouldn't be able to
maintain those emissions systems
correctly and so the EPA as part of the
Clean Air Act required the car
manufacturers provide the local
mechanics with the information and parts
they needed to maintain the emission
system and that was like the world's
first kind of rate to repair concept
baked into the Clean Air Act and since
then we've had countries around the
world Europe has passed similar
legislation Canada has something similar
around automobiles but then what
happened was around 2000 we started
getting more fancy electronics in cars
and there was the standardized obd or
onboard diagnostic port in cars but the
manufacturers were starting to add more
proprietary codes and so the
standardized diagnostic was was kind of
forking and you'd have to have the
special Mercedes software you have to
have the special Honda software and so
the independent folks which are which
are run and represented they actually
have a trade association that represents
them called aftermarket the org that's
the aftermarket automotive you know
association that represents all the
mechanics they got together put a bunch
of money together and started trying to
get a law passed in Congress to get
updated right to repair to include all
the computer diagnostics and they
completely failed they fell flat on
their face the car manufacturers Ford
and GM put a big money to stop them and
they realize it wasn't going to work to
pass a u.s. national law and so then
they went to the states and they tried
in a bunch of different states in
Trenton New Jersey to tried in Oregon
eventually they snow along Massachusetts
and in 2012 Massachusetts passed the
first ever right well the first
Electronics focused rate repair law and
Nathan who's here on the call with us
lives in Massachusetts Nathan how did
that campaign kind of go down what what
did you see what did you see happen as a
kind of you know consumer individual
living in Massachusetts sure I mean the
it passed like 86 to 14% on the ballot
which is essentially unheard of
especially for an issue where you have
you know heavy industry opposition you
know trying to protect these proprietary
you know repair you know systems for
cars so it was such a landslide
open some eyes about like people want
more control over how they handle the
things that they own and they want to be
able to choose their own you know
technicians they don't want to have to
depend on someone else to some
dealership to decide who gets to fix
their stuff and I get the impression
they could they framed it as a like
consumer choice shouldn't you be able to
pick which shop you go to and it wasn't
framed so much as a consumers being able
to fix their own things it was more
about being able to choose your local
local garage is that right yeah that's
right I mean I think people have a
relationship with a mechanic that they
trust and they care about those
relationships and passing write to
repair in Massachusetts at the time was
really about you know wanting to keep
the mechanics that we liked and we
trusted and that's the same now I mean
you should be able to go to a private
repair shop and trust that private tech
that you want to go to instead of being
forced just to go to Apple or Samsung
for OAM parts or certain types of
service but we've got some other you
know pros on the call here that we'll
talk about a bit later but before we get
into things Nathan can you give us some
background you work with US PIRG how are
you involved with what's a bird
yeah very good so the US PIRG is the
u.s. Public Interest Research Group were
a network of state advocacy
organizations which kind of stand up to
powerful special interests and whenever
our rights or democratic rights our
public health or our consumer rights are
threatened and so we work on we work
mostly at the state level we do have a
national presence but we have an
extensive kind of network of state
organizations which work to pass laws
that you know protect our health and
environment and yeah and we've been
working on rights repair for a little
bit now and you know working because a
trench repair is really a kind of huge
number of state laws all over the
country that would pass that would give
people the right to get to the stuff
that they need to fix their electronics
and so yeah that's how we were kind of
brought in and now my role at US PIRG as
the national campaign director on right
to repair is really to train and equip
like all these different state
coalition's all over the
country these scrappy groups of people
who are you know fighting for your
rights to fix things and then we also
kind of produce some independent
research and analysis to kind of support
the case for why repair is critical and
then why right to repair is critical as
a solution to the you know the rising
you waste problems that we have and so
to give you an example of the kind of
work that Nathan's group have been doing
you guys recently put out a report or
after the app where actually I'm looking
this is a report from a year ago so when
battery gate was this huge thing a year
ago where Apple started slowing down
batteries on all these phones and if
you'll recall what you know forever
Apple have been saying you know hey when
your phone starts getting slow it's just
because you have an old phone you should
get a new phone that's newer and faster
and shinier has a better camera and we
have new colors so get a new phone and
that you know that has worked
we built Apple up into the most
profitable company in the history of
humanity but actually we're throttling
your phones and this is happening and
but what will help fix that maybe a new
battery and so I was just kind of super
excited and it was just crazy to hear
like the Apple earnings call like talk
about battery gate and have that be like
a main focus like we you know replaced
11 million batteries during battery gate
and a lot of good portion of those we're
probably gonna be upgrades and it really
impacted their bottom line and I'm just
the impact of battery gate we saw it
here we you know started we offered our
bad it gets to people and saw you know a
huge influx of people that were opting
for that DIY repair object because like
the lines at the Apple Store were too
long or people you know had to wait too
long to get their thing fixed but I know
that like battery gate I'm sure had even
more impact on you know in the pro realm
so I'm Jessica can you know speak about
that a little bit when battery gate was
going on what was that like for you and
also yeah give an intro and here you are
and how you're involved with the
movement as well we've got just a muted
here oh man I mean yes you may be muted
that means yourself yeah we'll see if
Jessica Nam either self alright
unmuted hi I'm Jess I'm with iPad rehab
in New York and we've been really active
with the right to repair for a while now
so one thing that I want to share with
you guys if you don't know where to
start is that's how I was a few years
ago
I've been stunned at how easy it is to
talk to your representatives so this
means you go down and make an
appointment with your local state
legislator representative you're gonna
have a couple of them to pick from they
they really do want to hear from you
they're interested they will you know
stop eating lunch and and and sit down
and have a conversation because they
they are they really care that has been
my experience in my home state of New
York and Albany but also when we've gone
to you know we've gone to Tennessee and
we've gone to Iowa and and those guys
are are easy to talk to and they want
you to educate them one of my favorite
right to repair moments was hanging out
with a guy that that was a one of the
state legislators in Tennessee where the
word on the street from the you know
from the people in the know which are
the admin admin staff there where you
know that guy's not good he's never
gonna talk to you guys and in the
elevator you know I had my iPhone 6 and
I and I just opened it up and showed him
this is where the camera is did you know
that you're not allowed to open this up
and swap that and that the Apple store
won't do that he he stopped and and we
ended up spending 45 minutes talking and
it's great people they how are they
supposed to know this stuff
so it's your job you got to go in there
and we got to open up some phones and
and and teach teach people about what
repair really is I think that we saw
with battery gate we gave people an
option to do D or our DIY repair we gave
them more of a reason to go to pros to
have their battery swap but that aha
moment of like opening your phone for
the first time and realizing that it's
not as scary as you thought on the
inside I mean we have to we want to show
the world that but like we really have
to show legislators and people that are
trying to get these bills passed for us
because if they truly don't understand
you know how easy it is for the average
consumer to fix their stuff then they're
not gonna have the Cape for us so we're
constantly trying to get people to like
share their despair stories
like who are the people that are fixing
things that's where we're all fixing a
lot of these electronics and yeah that
was I just battery gate was the big
moment for me where I was just like yeah
all these people are actually doing this
well there was a great moment where we
were able to bring together we had all
the the local repair shops we had we had
folks like Jess's operation and us all
kind of collaborating together and I
pulled up this is the US PIRG report
where they found that repair shops were
saying a 37% increase in battery
replacements people going to replace the
batteries on iFixit surge by 150 percent
these are all people that are finding
Apple's repair option is insufficient
and we need an alternative there's just
not enough of them how many people have
phones that need upgrades like they
can't hold all the power in that regard
they have to kind of they have to share
it we gotta give people options exactly
so the organization that has been kind
of helping coordinate all of this at a
national level has been repaired other
and gay is with us gays the director of
repaired other gays muted right now
we'll toggle over the gay gay is also in
upstate New York although a little bit
away from where Jess is at high gay okay
good so can you give us a few what is
repaired org and who are the members and
what the heck are you working on oh well
we set ourselves up back in 2013 and
Kyle was part of that when we figured
out that that Massachusetts automotive
right to repair law was absolutely
perfect except it said cars so we said
about figure copying their model and a
number of our members in several states
are members our friends in the repair
industry contacted their local
legislators instead hey we we need your
help and it literally was that simple
one of a guy that runs repair company
down along Island he knocked on the well
he was friends with a senator and a
senator said well this seems pretty cool
and he filed a bill and we did the same
thing in Massachusetts the same thing in
Minnesota and then we also got the
attention in Nebraska for some local
people and they went ahead and filed a
bill so we kind of um we had a strategy
of copying that mask
juice it's law and it seems to be
working pretty well and so the umbrella
organization is essentially just an
umbrella of everybody that's interested
whether or not they're in the repair
business the recycling business their
charitable reuse errs or just people who
want to fix their stuff or believe in it
in repair so I was gonna ask again at
the end of this - for you to share some
of the resources and where people can go
to reach out to their legislature but
unrepaired or we've made it really easy
just repaired org slash stand-up I think
it is - or you can just go you're not
repaired org so New York dot repair - or
Washington dot repaired org there's a
there's a page so while we're on while
you're listening to us head on over to
to that page go to your state that
repairs other word and punch in punch in
your zip code and then that will it'll
show you who your legislators are and
you can write them a letter it real fast
okay so I've got and Peters that
commented and she's saying - Boulder
Colorado sure hoping we can move right
to prayer legislation in Colorado in
2019 or 2020 we've got a very blue
legislature right now so we should chat
about maybe some of the state stuff but
what's going on in Colorado Colorado is
awesome there's a lot of momentum we
have a really solid coalition going in
Colorado it's a we say well what's the
coalition Kulish is just a bunch of
people they're interested so Ann is a
friend of mine for a long time she's an
environmental consultant she's fantastic
and she has a good great network of
folks so when we were actually out and
and I was in Denver the other day and we
went out to dinner with a bunch of her
friends and they all had connections and
now we're starting to get these regular
calls going where the people are working
on on the campaign and Colorado get
together on the phone you know every
every week or every other week and we
talk about what's going on it can be as
simple as hey where we think we're going
to be in this committee and there's a
representative from Boulder who's on
that committee is anybody from Boulder
and could just give them a call and or
you have them over to a repair shop for
lunch and and show them the operation
and those those touches really really
seem to have an impact everybody's
asking where Lewis frost
where's Lewis we're gonna have Lewis on
the channel yeah next call
goal is to have Louis on yeah Louis if
you're watching well definitely yeah we
want to hear kind of from everybody but
going back to like some of the
sustainability initiative initiatives if
you know you're not in the repair
industry or maybe you haven't even fixed
a phone yet the sustainability which is
the impact on our environment
right to repair you know is bipartisan
they think for many reasons but it has
this major green initiative that
everybody can get attached to because
we're getting rid of almost like 50
million like tons of e-waste every year
and the longer that we can keep if we
give people more racist resources to fix
their things they're gonna keep their
devices lasting longer and then then one
end up in the landfill and we're
constantly trying to kind of you know
push that as well like look there's more
and more electronics getting made every
day more and more of them are glued
together and Nathan you were just
talking with motherboard about this CEO
ace is not the fastest growing waste
stream you know in the world then you
know arguably maybe has been for a while
but can you talk a little bit about that
pace report and yeah yeah so the UN
group that put out a report that you
know at the World Economic Forum and
they basically found that you know our
relationship with electronics is really
problematic we generate an incredible
amount of electronic waste in part
because electronics are you know being
installed in all kinds of things like
from our you know from the new Bluetooth
connected self-lacing Nike sneaker to
you know kind of every children's toy
has a battery in a circuit board in it
now you know we're turning everything
into electronic waste and and there's
consequences to that we haven't
necessarily thought of all the you know
what that what's that's gonna means like
long term and you know and one of the
key things that it's fueling this is the
disposability of all these devices I
mean everything from cell phone the
tablets to washing machines to tractors
like they're just getting so hard to
maintain and one of the main reasons the
companies that make it like basically
decide
who fixes it and when it gets fixed and
you know the charts that they show in
this report are just stunning
electronics seem to be getting smaller
and smaller smaller and smaller but that
doesn't mean that the e-waste problem is
getting smaller and in fact it's getting
bigger because they pointed out that you
know there was a larger number of large
appliances that were you know being sent
to the landfill or dying within like
five years and that's like I mean I'm
not gonna invest in a smart fridge or
smart microwave for only five years
because we're taking all of the things
that last for short periods of time
we're accustomed to cell phones or our
electronics working for a couple years
we're used to if you buy a washing
machine or refriger you expected lasts
for 20 years and now it's like let's
take the tablet the last two years and
let's put it into a refrigerator and and
and add this kind of planned
obsolescence yeah so there was a big
issue with Samsung refrigerators where
they had a Google Calendar integration
so that's kind of cool you can go your
figure and see your appointments for the
day
well Google changed the calendar API and
Samsung refused to update it and so
people were having to go and jailbreak
their refrigerators in order to update
their calendar to get it to work again
would you do this again we live in LG's
website says that you should check their
website for security updates for your
refrigerator every other month it's it's
crazy what they're the the volume of of
kind of technology they're adding into
things and they're not the manufacturers
are not thinking about how to support
their products they don't have great
support systems themselves and then
they're going out and they're sabotaging
the independence that try to do the
service if we can't fix it you can't
either it's very I don't like that so to
give you an example of the kind of thing
that rate to repair would enable us to
do if it passed I'd like to have Jessa
explain for a little bit what her
business is and what you do because one
one a situation you may have been in if
you have an iPhone you get weather
damage and maybe it's not functional but
you have pictures on there you want to
get off Apple for no amount of money
will recover the that data for you but
just as a team has figured out a way and
Jesse you're muted right now so I'm
immune all right so yes so for the right
to repair what would that mean to me and
other cell phone repair shops it
would mean that we would be able to do
some things that we either can't do it
all or are really really difficult so
one of the things that has plagued me in
this last year was trying to import
screens that were the very best screens
that I could get for my customers which
would be the OEM Apple original screens
with that were cracked to have them
resurfaced with new glass that's the
very best LCD it was the one that passed
Apple QC originally has the Apple logo
put there by Apple when they said this
is a good screen and they sold it and
when I sent screens like that that I
owned to China in order to have them
resurfaced by guys that are really
really good at that because that's where
they're made to begin with on the way
back home they were confiscated because
there's an Apple logo put there by Apple
and so that you've paid for and you're
not allowed to have those anymore those
are those are considered contraband
counterfeit and thrown away and and
that's outrageous things like this is
why I think the right to repair is
really important because it would allow
us to be able to give consumers multiple
options for what do you want to do to
fix your screen just like you have with
your car where you can choose to get the
OEM part or you could get an aftermarket
part but there's an awareness that
there's different qualities of parts out
there for your car and the same is true
for lots of electronics and we we need
to be able to have access to those best
quality parts so that we can make best
quality repairs so and the the trademark
issue that you ran into is not a unique
issue that you Apple has waging this
campaign against repair shops all over
the place this is a story Apple sued a
repair shop in Norway for doing exactly
what Jess's is doing they were importing
actual Apple aftermarket screens that
had the Apple logo on them that had been
repaired Apple sued them went all the
way through the court system in Norway
Apple lost its it's being appealed but
it's crazy that the repair shop has to
defend themselves for using parts that
were pulled from devices that they owned
yes that's that's crazy I like in the
chat that question that I see Cory
asking which is you know hey how what do
we say when we go talk to the
laterz so I when I go talk you know I
try to focus on let's address the common
misconceptions about safety you know so
we can talk about how it's really not
not inherently unsafe you don't need to
work inside a fume hood with a white
coat on in order to change a battery on
your iPhone to sort of show that what
does it look like and why is this not a
bonafide unique safety concern I like to
talk about you know the environment and
you know just show some facts and
figures on you know what it costs to
make these phones and and why it's
really uncool of us if you ask our
grandchildren to just keep buying phones
and not for never really think about
what we're doing to the environment when
we just replace instead of a repair and
then I like to talk about the sort of an
awareness over the lack of authorized
repair options
so either expense or lack of
availability you know to shine a light
on you know for phones if you go down to
the Apple Authorized repair place
they're not going to be able to fix your
phone why is that what does that look
like and there's a lot of great other
topics so maybe Kyle you could share
with us where would we look to kind of
see a list of that stuff or how can we
get involved to kind of is that collect
it anywhere that we can just kind of
print out well we need to put more stuff
together but I would say most of it's on
our I would say our blog and someone
repair dot org but when we have a good
idea so somebody in chat you know if you
have it hey you know what's really good
idea how do we contribute that so that
we can kind of funnel that all together
as a shared resource as a community yeah
great question and that's you know we're
trying to share more and more on the on
the repair that word blog on the news
page they're also you know motherboard
has been covering this extensively that
and so I've got up I can I can switch
over to the screen this is the right to
repair kind of coverage that that
motherboard has been running for example
we had right to repair protests in
Brussels in Europe this month which is
which is really cool a lot going on
and I know it just the campaign's that
we do before I fix it we have some
coming up I don't want to let the cat
out of the bag yet with that one we're
definitely gonna talk about it on the
next show but a lot of these just kind
of like a unified front and campaigns
and I hate to sound cliche but like
sharing the social media so we can and
we do take all these stories and all
these things that come together but I
think we're the most impact is gonna be
is you know coming up with the special
groups in your particular state and just
like you were saying just writing the
letter going down and talking to people
sharing the story and how it impacts you
on your life and just you all brought it
you also brought up the fact that a lot
of these Apple repair shops they're just
some fixes that they just won't do and I
think that a lot of people especially we
saw Linus tech tips some of the other
youtubers talking about their
experiences of trying to get things by
it fixed by Apple and they just they
just won't touch it and won't do it can
you maybe speak a little bit do you have
any stories or like things about that or
the types of repairs that Apple won't do
to kind of yeah you really need pros
sure so Apple it would be it would be
more clear to say what are the repairs
that Apple will do so Apple will change
your screen on an iPhone and Apple will
change your battery as long as they can
get it out in one piece so if they were
to start taking your battery it's a
little command strips that you have to
pull out and it broke then they're not
going to be able to change that battery
today they're required to package that
up and send it to the mothership
so Apple does you know heavily
institutionalised repair if you want to
call it repair at all it's really sort
of a mail-in you know FedEx service
where the the mindset of Apple is this
sort of hover parent you know the the
where where they're like you can't use a
butter knife let me cut the crust off
for you you're welcome
and so everything they do is like that
in fact you know one example is that
they do not trust even with the repair
that they do of a screen change they
don't trust the person the genius to be
able to keep track of those couple of
screws they have to throw those screws
away and open up a new blister pack of
screws in order to
screw back on the LCD plate they
certainly wouldn't trust that person to
transfer over a home button so you get
it home button your old home button just
goes away you know it's so it's it's
it's like the Big Apple is this kind of
a marionette kind of using their own
hands to to control everything so that's
huge you know people don't realize that
no one realizes that and it's crazy
because we see kids doing those fixes so
it's like Apple will do a phone and you
know battery screens up or a laptop
screens what but kids are doing this
stuff and you're right if you as long as
you're not using a buck knife to pry out
the battery and you have the right and
the safe tools and the things with them
and with the repair guide it's not it's
right not rocket surfer genius can do it
you can do it like that so and you know
we talked about Apple a lot but this is
about a lot more than just Apple kind of
anti-competitive practices in industry
after industry boom and going to the you
know these these right to repair
legislative events that's where you can
really talk to people and kind of become
aware of that I remember sitting and
having breakfast with some of the guys
from the farm community yeah so it's
like cell phone and and the John Deere
guys are now BFFs and I was I was
stunned to find out that if you have a
giant hundred thousand dollar tractor
where a fuse flows in the instrument
panel you can take it out you can see
the blown fuse you can say if that's a
blown fuse you can even go down to NAPA
Auto Parts and get a standard fuse and
put it back in there fixed go plow and
then when you when you screw that back
in you start that tractor up it'll say
whoa whoa whoa whoa somebody unplugged
the instrument panel I can't do anything
until you get the guy with the you know
the magic device to plug me in and do it
and you know essentially do an itunes
restore that costs $1000 minimum and
you're on their schedule so if you're
the little guy you need to plow today
because it's gonna rain tomorrow you're
totally out of luck
I mean it's outrageous the level of
control that we are allowing these
manufacturers to have over the things
that we bought and paid for this is our
food the
yeah so John Deere right so I think a
lot of people here is you know point to
Apple for this thing because well
they're in the news the most about it
and they're kind of add or they're kind
of on the opposite end and fighting may
be the hardest but you're right so it's
John Deere what doesn't mean we've got
Nikon all across the word gay I would be
interested from your perspective why are
these companies think they can get away
with this like why are we seeing so many
companies have these anti-competitive
strategies where they're they're you
know doing everything they can to shut
down the the independent repair options
well I think it's obvious that they
really just want to sell new equipment
that's hell that's their business it's
always been their business and it's just
been easy for them with the excuse of a
bit of software inside a mystery box to
tell consumers that they can't and we've
just okay and it makes no sense it isn't
dangerous for the manufacturer they
don't get hurt if you repair your own
stuff but what it does do and we saw
this very definitely in the Apple
financials is every repair is a sale
lost so it is definitely something
they're gonna fight as long as they
possibly can and they're gonna stall it
as long as they possibly can because
they just make more money it's the
perfect storm for a manufacturer to be
able to not only have no used
competition but have total control of
the price of repair and then wring the
price of repair so that you don't want
to repair your stuff you want to replace
it it's where they're never going to
agree and when when we're meeting with
legislators and they're trying to find a
middle ground it's very hard because we
have to say it really is never going to
be a middle ground there is no way the
John Deere is gonna back off on this
fight unless they're totally exempt
same thing with Apple totally exempt and
it's funny because Apple will say well
we think these are built these are the
lobbyist experiences we think farmers
should be able to fix their tractors but
not they're false then you you hear from
the John Deere lobbyists on the other
side is that oh you
absolutely should be able to fix your
phone just not your tractor it's pretty
ludicrous and pointing back to your
original question about what people can
do when they meet with legislators is
literally just tell your personal story
it's Jessa has a level of expertise that
most of us don't have you don't have to
you don't have to be Jessa you could say
like I've said my refrigerator everybody
the legislators have these exact same
experiences and so what starts out as a
as a nervous experience turns into a
very collegial oh my god we have same
problems so glad to work on this it's
you'll be stunned and how warmly this
idea is received so I'd love to get a
feel Nathan you've been in the
legislature fighting battles and and and
you you've successfully beaten some very
big companies in the past walk us
through like what is the strategy here
how are we going to how we're gonna get
right to repair past what do you think
yeah I mean that's a that's I mean we
really do have an incredibly well-funded
and sophisticated opposition right you
know given the experience that gay was
just talking about like walking into a
legislators office getting them to be
like Kevin aha moment with you because
they realize that they've had this exact
experience like why don't we just win
these bills and I think yeah you can't
underestimate how hard the opposition is
pushing against us and in every state
we've gone into you know the opposition
has been ahead of us they know what's
coming they hire the most expensive
lobbyists representation in the state
typically and the way you become the
most expensive lobbyist in a state is
you give the most campaign donations to
the most people in the legislature which
means that you can get a meeting with
anybody and so they go in those meetings
and then they do what we call sowing
fear uncertainty and doubt and there is
you know if people try to fix stuff are
they they hire their own repair
technicians they're gonna it's gonna be
dangerous they're personal so I mean we
we're doing
and hearing in New Hampshire next week
last year there was a person in New
Hampshire who testified that if we
didn't have software locks on chainsaws
people would soup up their chainsaws to
the point where the cheese would come
spinning off and hit that because people
are just itching to turn their chainsaws
into a more dangerous tool than they
already are
I know tractors to like people sweeping
up their tractors and like okay yeah
yeah it's I mean stop but but they say
oh we can't be trusted to fix it because
we'll make it dangerous and the people
we hire to fix it if we're not hiring
the manufacturer those people are not
trustworthy and we as the consumers
really should not be trusted to choose
our own repair technicians we need the
manufacturers to vet those people for us
and that's why it's the really important
thing is that we put the people who are
actually fixing this stuff in front of
those legislators and so that they can
try to explain to us why the people
aren't qualified why trustworthy and
especially I the one thing I wanted to
plug here was that one of them the
industry has created this fake security
front group that testifies and argues
that you know if we let Jessa fix your
phone it's you know it's a huge security
risk and Jessa I could you know
basically steal your identity or
something hoping that I'm going to
toggle over and I will I will show this
organization so this looks like a
legitimate security organization this is
not a organization that exists this is a
purely fake website and a fake
organization that was created by the
manufacturers specifically to stop write
to repair it has no staff if you if you
call them a person at a lobbying
organization will answer if you ask them
to testify they have to go and and you
know find somebody real quick to testify
because they don't have any experts on
staff but this is the kind of thing like
they pretty much have to like the
manufacturers are so afraid of opposing
us publicly that they are setting up
fake organizations to come after us
which i think is is a pretty good
indication that they know that they're
on the wrong side of history and I made
every time we have a conversation about
security we say well fine we'll bring in
you know one of the top cybersecurity
experts from Harvard and they'll happily
debate your fake security guy because
we're right and and you're crazy
and what we're able to actually sit down
and have those informed conversations
legislators it goes pretty well yeah and
so that was one thing I wanted to plug
was that Paul Roberts of the security
Ledger which is a kind of a security
blog and podcast is start trying to
start a group of people who are experts
in cybersecurity that can help us kind
of put together some materials to
counter this fake group and so he
started a handle called secure repair
where the re is shared between secure
and repair so it also looks like secure
pair and you can find it on Twitter at
secure repair or you can use the hashtag
and then if you follow that account or
you connect with that account you know
you can be connected with with those
efforts we're gonna create this group
we're gonna put together materials and
we're gonna help you know how to counter
these this fear uncertainty and doubt
about cybersecurity that the industry is
throwing up in our way so let's let's
talk through our kind of state-by-state
well let's just yeah I was gonna say
before we get in there and Oh Zack from
jerry-rigged everything just chimed in
and he's been doing you know durability
tests and repair for a really long time
another person we'd love to have on the
show at some point I just wanted to say
hi Zack and with that a lot of people
are asking we were talking about
different brands and where we see this
Tesla and the kind of close-circuit that
Tesla has but you recently shared that
they are sharing their parts catalog so
what's yeah so I mean this is a I think
demonstrates how the legislation could
be successful so Massachusetts passed
the law and so if Tesla wants to sell
cars in Massachusetts they have to
comply with the auto rights repair law
and so part of how they are starting to
do that is they have put online a Tesla
parts kind of navigator where you can
actually find and see I'll go over and
I'll show you this parts catalog but
this is pretty cool so you got login but
then you can click the general public
button there's no way Tesla would be
doing this if they weren't legally
required to and then you can actually go
over and that when we can look and we
can find the actual model number
of a piece of the door controller and so
here's all the model numbers and then
and then you know if you're in
Massachusetts then maybe they will sell
you parts and so this is what we'd like
to see from every manufacturer clearly
it's possible Tesla did it here and and
we're looking forward to so this is a
little bit of a vision of what would it
look like if we actually won yeah and so
the goal for so what's the goal for
right to repair this year where we've
got bills introduced in nineteen states
last year we make States last year we're
gonna we're aiming for more than that
this year the goal is to get it passed
and so the question is how do we get a
state bill passed
Nathan walk it walk me through like what
is the process that the bill has to go
through in a typical state in order to
become a lot yeah so typically we all
have is that first the bill will need a
sponsor and it will need to be
introduced so we'll need a legislator to
take the bill on to file language we
have sample language you can go to
repair dog org I think slash legislation
and you can download yourself if you
want then that bill typically is
assigned to a committee the committee
will hear the bill that's where we'll
have testimony it's great we like to
bring in people who are experts in you
know like the technical side of repair
people who maybe work at end-of-life for
electronics either recyclers or
refurbishers people who work in zero
waste and care about those issues and
after the committee the committee will
either you know pass the bill or
recommend the bill and then it will move
to like the the full chamber and that
that process can happen sometimes in
parallel between the two houses of a
legislature with smoke most states
except for Nebraska have in assembly or
a house and then a Senate before going
on to the governor first signing so but
to us the real the really critical parts
of this are getting through the
committee process those are the people
who are gonna have the highest level of
knowledge about the issue and have the
highest bar of actually understanding
the issue before they make a
recommendation and you know that's where
we're focused on we passed three
committees last year
which was the first we've done that so
we believe we have a lot of momentum
chores
you know kind of advancing past that
stage of the process getting two full
votes in in in legislatures and you know
just given how popular this issue is we
think that you know once we get to that
stage we'll have what it takes to win
but you know we it does it does take a
lot of work to get to that stage so we
have done a lot of groundwork over the
last year to get ready and as a result
of that groundwork we have a whole bunch
of states that have already introduced
bills in 2019 so this is a map of US
states that have introduced bills Hawaii
is introduced to Bill Montana North
Dakota all over the place and we
actually as a result of all that work
we're going to be having a series of
hearings probably in all of these states
or in many of these states over over the
next few months there are more states
that are going to be coming online and
we'll be posting as more states
introduce bills and for every single one
of these states we've put together these
handy pages so New Hampshire for example
has a hearing next week New Hampshire
has a hearing on Tuesday at 2 o'clock
and so if you're in New Hampshire or you
know someone that's near New Hampshire
show up and just like being at the
hearing whether you're testifying or not
is is a great show of support for for
the bill like people they really like to
see a crowded room one of the things
that I that I learned when we've gone
out to some of these states is that the
important time isn't necessarily as a
day that there's a a public discussion
or public forum so when we all went out
to Nebraska it was very disappointing
and frustrating and we were limited to
three minutes each to talk and after
that we found out by just kind of asking
these guys hey how many times have you
already been visited by the opposition
lobbyists like Apple and they said oh
they've been here at least six times in
my office
well you can't compete with somebody
spending six hours in someone's office
when you have a three-minute verb to say
so you need to get in there and to get
get the appointments with your
representative before
and in addition to when it's your time
to actually you know participate in some
sort of an open public forum in your
state so it's you you got to get in
there ahead of time I think that's a
terrific point and then I also say cuz I
was this is you know happening in New
Hampshire right now like invite your
d'leh if you run a repair shop invite
your legislator to come and visit your
business show that that person what kind
of you do what kind of repairs your
block from doing you know what you have
to do to kind of make up for the fact
that manufacturers won't give you the
parts and service information that you
need to do all the jobs that you could
do if you had that information yeah I
would also say that I I I want to make
it clear that is at least as far as I
know this has never come up for a vote
in any of the states so it feels like oh
yeah right you repair right to repair
it's been going on for a long time never
gets past it it also doesn't get voted
down it just doesn't make it out of the
committee and the thing the one thing
that the entire legislature is actually
going to make a yes or no on that year
so it percolates and it continues to
percolate so it's the squeaky wheel that
gets the grease with this stuff that's
what I've learned talking to these guys
so if you're a legislator you got to
make a budget so budget takes up a big
chunk of time once that's done you have
this limited window weeks of time to get
anything else done so these guys are
looking for what's the easy low hanging
fruit to bang out right to repair is big
and difficult and they've got to put
some thought into it and the only way to
make that become a priority for any
state legislature is you got to be loud
and and let them know that their
constituents this is the thing that that
should get their attention that's it
this session that's why you know this
stuff is so important everybody's role
is important your phone call is really
important it creates that that noise and
that's where figuring out who your
legislator are is really important over
here I've got this is I'm in California
so I went the California dot repaired
other
and I put it in our address and then you
can start writing and then right here
it's gonna say okay my representatives
are jordan cunningham and bill Monning
so now i know and we are going to be
able to you know that then i can i can i
can write them a letter right here and
this is the this is the bill of
california from last year we're working
on a bill number for this year and that
will that carries to get as many of your
friends and family as you possibly can
to fill this out because those letters
are you know the first step in the door
after you've written the leather and you
maybe want to get involved in and and
and and what would be maybe the next
step that you would recommend that
people do jeff Sergei that's all you
really need to do as a as a constituent
is use your power and this is not like
going to some anonymous voting booth
where you know everybody in your
neighborhood who has maybe crazy
opinions on stuff is wiping out your
vote your voice is the only voice
because Apple doesn't vote in their
district it's your voice that carries
the power and if you don't use it we
can't make you but damn it's an awfully
good opportunity because it is in the in
the realm of the legislature to do
something and I disagree a little bit
with the getting of the bills through
committee because not every state has
committees committees are often
structured to be a bit of a kabuki dance
there's sometimes legislators don't even
show up so I wouldn't focus so much on
the hearing process as on the Show and
Tell and the personal contacts if you
can get some if you can just show up
with something that's broken and sit
down with the guy and show them how you
fix it it's a mystery to so many people
that this is just a bunch of parts
they're small
that's just they're just small so yeah
use your power as a constituent because
it is real PAP we've another comment
from Ann saying can we get email
notifications with
lead-time four states where the bills
are introduced or possibly introduced
reduces for committee hearings so like
they've don't focus on yeah I mean we're
gonna be we're going to be publishing on
a regular basis on the repaired other
blog as new things happen but if you
want to get really engaged and involved
and in your state and it's one of the
states that we've got that we've already
got on this map we do have a coalition
going and so you can email gay she I'll
put her email address up on the on the
chest but if you an email gay and say
hey I'm in New Hampshire and I really
like to get involved in the others a
hearing next week then gay can connect
you with the people who are who are
organizing things in the the state and
then it's the best way to do that go to
repair or there's a there's a contact
form there but also you don't put this
with your email in the chat so the Scott
Ferguson's passionate about this he's
was sounds like in the repair industry
but yeah he just wants some more modes
of attack and I would say just to reach
out to us your you know from your state
reach out to us and we can connect you
with the people or repaired or can
connect you with the people but we need
a state level yeah it's like if you look
at that map and basically all those
places there are people that are kind of
coming up with a strategy specific to
that place and there are other places
where we have secret plans which you
shall not know of I know the
manufacturers who are currently
listening to this they're gonna have to
wait to see what we're gonna do in some
of those other places but yeah so but if
you're in any of those states you can
reach out and be connected with the
other people in your state you've kind
of come up with a plan for what it'll
take to get over the top there and you
know those things vary by state
you know it's every state has its own
kind of sense of who are the important
people that are gonna need to make the
decision and how we're gonna get them to
do that and then and of course your if
you're in a state where you don't see it
on that list it doesn't mean that there
won't be a bill filed so you can always
you know one reach out to your own
legislators and ask them to file a bill
or to kind of ask us if we have one of
the works yeah absolutely
I'm seeing so many people that are like
here's my state I want to help so I
want to follow up with some of these
people on yeah just great a comment came
in from Nicholas wool I'm not when you
plans to fix my own stuff don't want to
accidentally make things worse
Nicholas you haven't been listening you
can totally do so many of these repairs
and if you have the guide and that's
what we're fighting for is just the the
information to be able to do it right
you can do it so I believe in you but I
would also say even if you're never
going to do a repair yourself right
repair will help you because it's going
let's say you're the kind of person that
only ever wants to take your repairs to
Apple right repair will make your life
better because what it's going to do is
keep Apple honest it's going to keep
competition out there if the the car
dealers didn't have local mechanic so
they had to compete with they would be
charging a lot more than they do for
repairs they're already expensive they
would be a lot more expensive a monopoly
market hurts everybody even the people
who only use the manufacturer option and
you and if you're not one to fix things
and the choice is there for you to go to
those pros and seek that help and to go
to those I want people to start thinking
about going to pros first likes DIY then
go to your pros you know that's opposed
to just thinking that Apple or your your
manufacturer is the only option because
I would hate to have to drive my car
just to the dealership to get an oil
change every single time and just I
constantly compare it to that to try to
brush well we live in the world where a
lot of people are throwing things away
you know if you if you crack your phone
some people toss in a drawer and keep as
a backup and go get a new one they're
not getting it fixed at all or with your
car nobody's gonna throw away a car
because you cracked the windshield right
assume the assumption is we're going to
get that repaired but if you have a
vacuum that breaks a lot of people have
stopped fixing vacuums they're just
gonna go and buy a new one your typical
appliance only lasts five to seven years
these days so we need to move back to a
world where repairs the default option
and and this kind of legislation will
help create more of a more of an
ecosystem and and that's one thing I
wanted to mention you we're not talking
a lot about Republicans or Democrats or
or Trump versus Pelosi in this
conversation we're working on a
political issue and that we need
legislators to pass this but this is a
bipartisan issue in in Republican a lot
of these states are republican-led
states and the Republicans care about
this because it's a free-market issue
because it's about local small business
because it's about creating more
American self-reliance from Chinese
manufacturers right so that we
a lot of diehard free-market Republicans
that are super in favor of this and on
the on the Democrat side there's a lot
of interest in the environmental
benefits of this I would say I would add
to what you guys just said about if
you're an end user that is never gonna
fix anything yourself it's still good
for you to have the shop down the corner
that can do that and what I would say to
the end-user is you have no idea how
tenuous the existence of that shop is
all it would take for your corner shop
to go out of business would be for iOS
13 to come out and to require a serial
number from the screen on your phone so
that you couldn't just replace it with
an with an aftermarket screen or
somebody else's refurbished OEM screen
it's that it's it's that close to being
completely unrepairable and if that
happens whether you're an end-user or
whether you're a repair shop you're
really going to regret it if you never
made your voice heard now in support of
right to repair right and I would would
this happened with with cameras so I'm
gonna I'll click over and I'll show an
article on this is on the consumer
electronics page on repair Dell org in
2012 Nikon decided they were going to
stop selling service parts to camera
shops so here in our little town of san
luis obispo we had two independent local
camera shop so they've been there for 50
years
they're fantastic there was Jim's campus
camera right downtown and they made
money in two ways they would sell new
cameras and lenses and they would fix
things and Amazon had eroded their new
camera sales and so they were
increasingly dependent on service nikon
saw an opportunity and said hey you know
we only have 50% market share of repairs
so if we get rid of the independents
we'll have a hundred percent market
share and so they stopped selling parts
to these in the panic camera shops and
and they all went out of business and
now like good luck finding a local
camera shop in a small town in America
they don't really exist anymore we don't
have any camera stores in San Luis
Obispo it's a very photogenic place
people like taking pictures so people
solve lots of cameras but now your only
option if you have a
fancy high-end nikon canon is to Mahlon
Nikon cameras a melon to Nikon which is
terrible it's it's hurt the local
economy
it's it's hurt consumers I think it's
hurt Nikon long-term so we've got about
five minutes left and I just want to
kind of pay attention to all of the like
repair stories come in and somebody just
upgrade the RAM on their Mac Mini
somebody's talking about checking out
fix-it clinics it's another awesome
resource repair cafes are popping up
everywhere and it's a huge resource if
you you know want help fixing a lot of
these things yourself
iPhone 6 screen and kit so and and this
is in itself evidence people who are
capable of fixing their own things that
was just like fantastic so there's a lot
of exciting things happening the
retroperitoneum where do we have
hearings next week yeah so on Tuesday we
have hearings in both New Hampshire and
Washington State and then Wednesday
South Dakota so I know all you stopped
the co2 people anything cut out from at
me yeah no a so I mean this is there's
so much momentum that is going to be
happening over the next we have another
call we're going to do this again same
time same place in two weeks but in
between now and then there is going to
be a lot of action so stay tuned you
should follow repair Coalition on
Twitter and you know I'm actually
realizing two weeks is February the 14th
it's Valentine's Day so should we do it
on Valentine's Day okay all right so
Valentine's Day repair dollar oh yeah
right to repair call will be on it we
will have Lewis rossmann here next time
which we're very much looking forward to
so Valentine's date with Lewis which
would be awesome or tell it'll be good
and reach out to everybody but the
participation has been great and we
really want to see people back here and
then we can also you know have Nathan
talk a little bit more about the states
that need the most help like this week
or right now right yeah I don't know if
Nathan is there just so you said there
are a couple states that have hearings
yeah sorry I started I cut out for a
second so
they're on to us now so New Hampshire is
on Tuesday Washington State is also on
Tuesday South Dakota is on Wednesday if
you live in South Dakota you can call
into that if you let us know my twitter
handle is at end properties are if you
ever have a question
I'm Way too connected to my Twitter
account that that's a good day to find
us quickly too
yeah so reach out to gay which is that
Repair Coalition on Twitter Nathan and
Proctor or I fix it and then you can
also if you want to get involved in
volunteer in one of these states fill
out the forum on repair dialogue and
that will that will connect you with gay
and she will connect you with the
coalition in your state this isn't going
to happen without grassroots support we
have huge support we've had a thousand
people write their legislators in the
last week the momentum is building
there's a lot of action going on so but
but it's not going to happen without you
as we've seen last year Apple smacked us
down 19 states in a row we are well on
our way they do a lot better than that
this year but we can't do without your
help so keep coming back join us on the
call again it'll be bi-weekly same time
same place and we'll keep you updated on
on everything that's right to repair and
how you can be involved so thanks for
joining us great absolutely this is
awesome this is super fun and and we're
gonna be posting this as a podcast later
as well yeah some people were asking if
they could call in or how they could
hear it but it will be posted on a
podcast and it will go up on our channel
as well so you can watch it there too
cool have a wonderful Thursday thanks
for being here everybody yeah thank you
fix it
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